From saphetiger at post891.org Mon Oct 1 15:46:56 2007 From: saphetiger at post891.org (Drew) Date: Mon Oct 1 15:48:04 2007 Subject: [opensource] Did I miss the booth Message-ID: <47014EB0.2090609@post891.org> Hey, I was at, Ohio Linux Fest last weekend but I didn't see the OSUOSS there? Where were you guys? --Drew From salehi at cse.ohio-state.edu Tue Oct 2 00:43:45 2007 From: salehi at cse.ohio-state.edu (Farhad Salehi) Date: Tue Oct 2 00:44:03 2007 Subject: [opensource] Did I miss the booth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There was no booth but a lot of us were there. I was mainly at the FSF booth and also did my best to mention the Open Source Club and was able to get some contacts with people there (I will bring up some of the stuff at Thursday's meeting). Drew wrote: > Hey, > > I was at, Ohio Linux Fest last weekend but I didn't see the OSUOSS > there? Where were you guys? > > --Drew From ltingting77 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 2 12:12:28 2007 From: ltingting77 at yahoo.com (Tingting Lu) Date: Tue Oct 2 12:51:30 2007 Subject: [opensource] GAA position available at Library Multimedia Lab In-Reply-To: <37df3f337e1b15.37e1b1537df3f3@osu.edu> Message-ID: <806409.52377.qm@web81313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A Graduate Administrative Associate position is available at Sullivant Library's Multimedia Production Space. Please see attached job description. Web development and programming skills are essential, multimedia production and design experience are highly desired. If interested, please fill out the attached application form and send, along with resume, to: Kathy Webb (webb.45@osu.edu), by Monday Oct 8th. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: MPS Assistant APPLICATION 2007 - GAA.doc Type: application/msword Size: 30208 bytes Desc: 1580074867-MPS Assistant APPLICATION 2007 - GAA.doc Url : http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071002/b3628d2b/MPSAssistantAPPLICATION2007-GAA-0001.doc From dietz.72 at osu.edu Thu Oct 4 13:23:34 2007 From: dietz.72 at osu.edu (Peter Dietz) Date: Thu Oct 4 13:24:13 2007 Subject: [opensource] call for presentations Message-ID: <240a31830710041023h659c1a24r3c053c2e13b126b1@mail.gmail.com> Open Source Members, I hope everyone who went to Linux Fest had a great time, and those who were unable to do so will plan their schedule sooner, so they don't miss out again. Meeting Announcement ================= = When: Tonight October 4, 2007 == = Topic: no topic yet == =- Where: Dreese Labs 266 ================= We also need to have meeting events planned for the quarter, so I request that anyone who would be interested in presenting something to feel free to pick a time that you would like to present. I would love to see more people getting involved this quarter/year. Upcoming topics needing dates are: php, google maps api, parallel processing programming language And we could surely use your fresh ideas Meeting 2 - Thursday Oct 4 7pm - DL 266 - ** Tonight ** Meeting 3 - Thursday Oct 11 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 4 - Thursday Oct 18 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 5 - Thursday Oct 25 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 6 - Thursday Nov 1 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 7 - Thursday Nov 8 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 8 - Thursday Nov 15 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 9 - Thursday Nov 22 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 10 - Thursday Nov 29 7pm - DL 266 - Meeting 11 - Thursday Dec 6 - Finals Week - Social Past topics have included demos of (open source) software they use and understand, something they have developed, and so on. Getting the date you want will be based on first come first serve. -- == Peter Dietz Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University From dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu Tue Oct 9 12:21:26 2007 From: dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu (Jim Dinan) Date: Tue Oct 9 12:22:04 2007 Subject: [opensource] [Fwd: [ntSig Mailing List] Updates and Halo 3 Launch Party] Message-ID: <470BAA86.5020307@cse.ohio-state.edu> Ok, so it's not open source but it's always nice to support our fellow orgs in CS&E. :) Below is ntSig's announcement: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ntSig Mailing List] Updates and Halo 3 Launch Party Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:49:13 -0700 (PDT) From: webmaster@ntsig.com Reply-To: webmaster@ntsig.com To: dinan@cse.ohio-state.edu ------------UPDATES AND HALO 3 LAUNCH PARTY------------ Hey ntSig members, My name is Michael Enriquez, and I'm the new ntSig president for the 2007-2008 school year. I'd like to share with you some changes I've made with the website and mailing list, and talk about the first meeting of the year. First, I've setup a new website at [http://www.ntsig.com]. I'll be using the website to post events, articles, and pictures. I've also migrated the mailing list to be integrated with the website. I encourage you to create an account and interact with the site, as it will be the central place for all things ntSig. Now, details for the first event: Halo 3 Launch Party [http://www.ntsig.com//node/2] Friday, October 12th, 6pm Mendenhall Lab Room 100 I will be giving a short introduction to Microsoft XNA and the Imagine Cup, and for the rest of the time we'll be having a Halo 3 Tournament. Even if you don't play Halo, I hope you can still stop by so that I can meet you. See you there! Michael Enriquez ntSig President OSU Microsoft Student Partner -- Unsubscribe from this newsletter: http://www.ntsig.com/newsletter/confirm/remove/8b64ad5435143t2 From trent.arms at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 12:47:42 2007 From: trent.arms at gmail.com (Wyatt) Date: Tue Oct 9 12:48:16 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs Message-ID: I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a combination of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and down-stream bandwidth and the ability to have multiple lines. Good service and equipment, or at least service and equipment significantly above rock-bottom (Time Warner) would be nice as well. Does anyone have any recommendations? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071009/84eb23fe/attachment.html From dietz.72 at osu.edu Tue Oct 9 13:12:03 2007 From: dietz.72 at osu.edu (Peter Dietz) Date: Tue Oct 9 13:12:37 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <240a31830710091012g7fddf753ifbf91d04c3b5c643@mail.gmail.com> I'm looking for that same thing, we have timewarner/roadrunner cable (tv + internet) and its about $120 monthly, and we still fight about who has to go restart the modem this time.... I think AT&T Yahoo DSL availble, though it is likely slow. And I believe WOW offers service in the area also. OSU offers a buck 95 dialup, which I'm sure is a rock-solid performer http://www.osuweb.net/ ...but thats all I've been able to find in the area On 10/9/07, Wyatt wrote: > > I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a combination > of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and down-stream bandwidth > and the ability to have multiple lines. Good service and equipment, or at > least service and equipment significantly above rock-bottom (Time Warner) > would be nice as well. Does anyone have any recommendations? > > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > -- == Peter Dietz 614-441-8182 - Phone Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071009/9dbc6cdb/attachment.html From murry.8 at osu.edu Tue Oct 9 13:40:28 2007 From: murry.8 at osu.edu (Daniel Murry) Date: Tue Oct 9 13:41:02 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: <7f93e0910710091039p36a27744gd49e9f5f832151d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <240a31830710091012g7fddf753ifbf91d04c3b5c643@mail.gmail.com> <7f93e0910710091039p36a27744gd49e9f5f832151d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f93e0910710091040ud631931pcc0cb70441847a21@mail.gmail.com> I'm a huge fan of WOW, at least compared to Time Warner. I had them for 3-4 years when I lived in Columbus. I did notice that their dns servers would become painfully slow at times... You do have to be careful and make sure you order the correct speed package, because they have a really cheap one they advertise all the time that is only like 115 kbps down. I think I paid $74 month for basic analog cable with a box (the box has a crude guide system, but it worked) and the 4mbps internet. You can haggle with them a bit to get the price down using Time Warner as a reference/threat. I also had Time Warner for a year and I battled with disconnect issues the whole time. I'd rather stay connected all the time than worry about up/down speed issues. -Dan On 10/9/07, Peter Dietz wrote: > > I'm looking for that same thing, we have timewarner/roadrunner cable (tv + > internet) and its about $120 monthly, and we still fight about who has to go > restart the modem this time.... > > I think AT&T Yahoo DSL availble, though it is likely slow. And I believe > WOW offers service in the area also. > > OSU offers a buck 95 dialup, which I'm sure is a rock-solid performer > http://www.osuweb.net/ > > > ...but thats all I've been able to find in the area > > On 10/9/07, Wyatt < trent.arms@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a > > combination of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and down-stream > > bandwidth and the ability to have multiple lines. Good service and > > equipment, or at least service and equipment significantly above rock-bottom > > (Time Warner) would be nice as well. Does anyone have any recommendations? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Opensource mailing list > > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > > > > > > -- > == > Peter Dietz > 614-441-8182 - Phone > Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > -- Daniel Murry Industrial and Systems Engineering The Ohio State University Contact: Email - danmurry@gmail.com Mobile - (440) 318-5100 -- Daniel Murry Industrial and Systems Engineering The Ohio State University Contact: Email - danmurry@gmail.com Mobile - (440) 318-5100 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071009/5ae1fa84/attachment-0001.html From fritts.11 at osu.edu Tue Oct 9 15:29:10 2007 From: fritts.11 at osu.edu (AP Fritts) Date: Tue Oct 9 15:29:44 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: <7f93e0910710091040ud631931pcc0cb70441847a21@mail.gmail.com> References: <240a31830710091012g7fddf753ifbf91d04c3b5c643@mail.gmail.com> <7f93e0910710091039p36a27744gd49e9f5f832151d3@mail.gmail.com> <7f93e0910710091040ud631931pcc0cb70441847a21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <793414560710091229m19f06f42s336d2414a0f60d4b@mail.gmail.com> If you have DNS issues, you can set your DNS settings to OpenDNS www.opendns.org I like em. AP On 10/9/07, Daniel Murry wrote: > I'm a huge fan of WOW, at least compared to Time Warner. > > I had them for 3-4 years when I lived in Columbus. I did notice that their > dns servers would become painfully slow at times... You do have to be > careful and make sure you order the correct speed package, because they have > a really cheap one they advertise all the time that is only like 115 kbps > down. I think I paid $74 month for basic analog cable with a box (the box > has a crude guide system, but it worked) and the 4mbps internet. You can > haggle with them a bit to get the price down using Time Warner as a > reference/threat. > > I also had Time Warner for a year and I battled with disconnect issues the > whole time. I'd rather stay connected all the time than worry about up/down > speed issues. > > -Dan > > > On 10/9/07, Peter Dietz wrote: > > I'm looking for that same thing, we have timewarner/roadrunner cable (tv + > internet) and its about $120 monthly, and we still fight about who has to go > restart the modem this time.... > > > > I think AT&T Yahoo DSL availble, though it is likely slow. And I believe > WOW offers service in the area also. > > > > OSU offers a buck 95 dialup, which I'm sure is a rock-solid performer > http://www.osuweb.net/ > > > > > > ...but thats all I've been able to find in the area > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Wyatt < trent.arms@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a > combination of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and down-stream > bandwidth and the ability to have multiple lines. Good service and > equipment, or at least service and equipment significantly above rock-bottom > (Time Warner) would be nice as well. Does anyone have any recommendations? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Opensource mailing list > > > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > > > > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > == > > Peter Dietz > > 614-441-8182 - Phone > > Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University > > _______________________________________________ > > Opensource mailing list > > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > > > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > > > > > > > -- > Daniel Murry > Industrial and Systems Engineering > The Ohio State University > > Contact: > Email - danmurry@gmail.com > Mobile - (440) 318-5100 > > -- > Daniel Murry > Industrial and Systems Engineering > The Ohio State University > > Contact: > Email - danmurry@gmail.com > Mobile - (440) 318-5100 > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > -- AP Fritts Mobile: 330-730-1404 AIM: apfritts oSTEM at Ohio State, President ChallengeX, Member GLBT Leaders Council, Member HRC@OSU, Member Open Source Club, Member From dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu Tue Oct 9 15:30:25 2007 From: dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu (Jim Dinan) Date: Tue Oct 9 15:31:02 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470BD6D1.1080307@cse.ohio-state.edu> Hey Wyatt, I wouldn't call Time Warner rock bottom. I've had them for about 3 years now and I've been pretty happy with the level of service. The up/downstream bandwidth is pretty good and they don't filter your traffic. I run web, dns, ssh, etc servers on my time warner roadrunner service and the IP changes very rarely, maybe once per year. I've never had any problems running bittorrent, edonkey, gnutella, or any other peer-to-peer stuff. All together, I pay something like $75 per month for internet and analog cable. They gave me a Motorola Surfboard modem that works really well, I never have to restart it. I know others with DSL modems that crap out a few times a month that have to be manually rebooted. Not so great if you have a server running and you want to hang on to your ip. Good luck! ~jim. Wyatt wrote: > I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a > combination of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and > down-stream bandwidth and the ability to have multiple lines. Good > service and equipment, or at least service and equipment significantly > above rock-bottom (Time Warner) would be nice as well. Does anyone have > any recommendations? From dietz.72 at osu.edu Tue Oct 9 16:13:50 2007 From: dietz.72 at osu.edu (Peter Dietz) Date: Tue Oct 9 16:14:23 2007 Subject: [opensource] Fw: Student Web Developer position at the OSU Libraries Instruction Office In-Reply-To: <20070118190830.20646.qmail@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20070118190830.20646.qmail@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <240a31830710091313v10c39187ie59ebd263033ae2f@mail.gmail.com> Hey Everyone, I was going through my old emails, and I noticed a request for skilled web developers / programmers. The project was for a way to introduce first year students to the University Libraries via a bunch of games. For the finished product, checkout http://library.osu.edu/sites/fye/ Its pretty cool in my opinion. On 1/18/07, Tingting Lu wrote: > > > The OSU Libraries Instruction Office is looking for a > student Web developer with experience in web > programming and Flash animation to develop/improve a > series of casual interactive games and puzzles. > Background in design or some knowledge of visual and > interactive design principles highly desired. > > The prototypes of the games were built with Hot > Potatoes (HTML & JavaScript) and Macromedia Captivate > (Flash). The finished product will be distributed to > all first year freshmen coming this Fall to orient > them to the University Libraries. [Job description > flyer attached] > > Salary: $10.00 per hour > > Start Date: Available immediately beginning Winter > Quarter 2007 > > Contact: > Send list of qualifications and links to related > projects you have developed to: > Fred Roecker, Head Library Instruction > roecker.1@osu.edu > > Responsibilities: > ? Work with the project team to ensure the creative > vision can be realized from a technical standpoint > ? Provide creative solutions to design and technical > problems > ? Produce Flash animations and interactive web > content, coding and testing JavaScript and > ActionScript for provided content > ? Create and edit graphics for web and Flash content > ? Assist in usability testing > > Qualifications: > ? HTML, JavaScript, cascading style sheet, Dreamweaver > ? Flash and Advanced ActionScript > ? Fireworks and/or Photoshop > ? Visual design skills > ? Highly responsive to iterative design and testing > needs > ? Able to meet project deadlines > > Hours: > Up to 20 hours per week. There is a tight deadline for > this project, so most programming work will be done in > January through April 2007. > > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > > -- == Peter Dietz Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071009/b7cb8ba8/attachment.html From uhrich.1 at gradsch.ohio-state.edu Tue Oct 9 17:03:16 2007 From: uhrich.1 at gradsch.ohio-state.edu (Marc Uhrich) Date: Tue Oct 9 17:03:49 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: <470BD6D1.1080307@cse.ohio-state.edu> References: <470BD6D1.1080307@cse.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <46CB246A6FE23948B81E95787CC1542107822FF7@exchange.gradsch.ohio-state.edu> I've used both Time Warner and WOW for about a year. I switched from Time Warner to get the 6Mbit/1Mbit service that WOW exclusively offers in our area. Additionally, I wanted a static IP address. As for service and pricing, I would have to say they are both pretty comparable. WOW was a little cheaper, but I've has some packet dropping from them and other odd, and very minor, anomalies. However, their phone response time is fantastic compared to Time Warner. Ultimately, I have been very satisfied with both companies and would recommend picking whichever you can get the best deal on. Finally, I feel the need to comment on Time Warner being the bottom of the barrel. My experience with them was extremely similar to Jims. >From the time that I had it installed to the time they pulled the plug I can't recall rebooting my modem even once. My parents, who have Time Warner because of Adelphia's buyout, had only minor issues during their merger and now have a very rock solid and fast connection. That's my 2 cents worth. Marc Uhrich Systems Engineer @ OSU Graduate School 247 University Hall, 230 N Oval Mall Columbus, Ohio 43210 (614) 292-0600 -----Original Message----- From: opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu [mailto:opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Dinan Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 3:30 PM To: Wyatt Cc: Open Source mailing list Subject: Re: [opensource] Local ISPs Hey Wyatt, I wouldn't call Time Warner rock bottom. I've had them for about 3 years now and I've been pretty happy with the level of service. The up/downstream bandwidth is pretty good and they don't filter your traffic. I run web, dns, ssh, etc servers on my time warner roadrunner service and the IP changes very rarely, maybe once per year. I've never had any problems running bittorrent, edonkey, gnutella, or any other peer-to-peer stuff. All together, I pay something like $75 per month for internet and analog cable. They gave me a Motorola Surfboard modem that works really well, I never have to restart it. I know others with DSL modems that crap out a few times a month that have to be manually rebooted. Not so great if you have a server running and you want to hang on to your ip. Good luck! ~jim. Wyatt wrote: > I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a > combination of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and > down-stream bandwidth and the ability to have multiple lines. Good > service and equipment, or at least service and equipment significantly > above rock-bottom (Time Warner) would be nice as well. Does anyone have > any recommendations? _______________________________________________ Opensource mailing list Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource From porr.4 at osu.edu Wed Oct 10 16:17:00 2007 From: porr.4 at osu.edu (Adam Porr) Date: Wed Oct 10 16:17:35 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2772ffef0710101317j72d95750pf773754c0880487b@mail.gmail.com> Hey Wyatt Check out Speakeasy DSL: http://www.speakeasy.net I've been very happy with their performance and customer service. They aren't the cheapest, but I've found them to be at least as solid as my AC power. They have a variety of packages depending on how much you want to spend. They also explicitly allow you to share your connection with neighbors if you wish. Adam On 10/9/07, Wyatt wrote: > I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a combination > of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and down-stream bandwidth > and the ability to have multiple lines. Good service and equipment, or at > least service and equipment significantly above rock-bottom (Time Warner) > would be nice as well. Does anyone have any recommendations? > > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > -- gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys F7F72CBA 2E02 EEAC EF67 E8B3 1FA5 6DF4 A0FB C0CF F7F7 2CBA From lhowell at speakeasy.net Wed Oct 10 16:35:01 2007 From: lhowell at speakeasy.net (Larry W Howell) Date: Wed Oct 10 16:39:15 2007 Subject: [opensource] Local ISPs In-Reply-To: <2772ffef0710101317j72d95750pf773754c0880487b@mail.gmail.com> References: <2772ffef0710101317j72d95750pf773754c0880487b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470D3775.8020609@speakeasy.net> Adam Porr wrote: > Hey Wyatt > > Check out Speakeasy DSL: > > http://www.speakeasy.net > > I've been very happy with their performance and customer service. They > aren't the cheapest, but I've found them to be at least as solid as my > AC power. They have a variety of packages depending on how much you > want to spend. They also explicitly allow you to share your connection > with neighbors if you wish. > > Adam > > On 10/9/07, Wyatt wrote: >> I'm looking for ISPs in the (campus) area. Maybe one, maybe a combination >> of a few, but the major requirement is good up- and down-stream bandwidth >> and the ability to have multiple lines. Good service and equipment, or at >> least service and equipment significantly above rock-bottom (Time Warner) >> would be nice as well. Does anyone have any recommendations? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensource mailing list >> Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu >> http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource >> >> > > I'm another very happy Speakeasy customer. They also allow servers if you are so inclined and their support people speak Linux and FOSS. The speeds they offer depend on your distance from your Central Office, just as all DSL connections do. Larry From dietz.72 at osu.edu Thu Oct 11 09:22:57 2007 From: dietz.72 at osu.edu (Peter Dietz) Date: Thu Oct 11 09:23:32 2007 Subject: [opensource] Meeting Tonight -- MythTV (an OS for your home media center) Message-ID: <240a31830710110622s3296564ax6c110363a4c21a5f@mail.gmail.com> OPENSOURCE CLUB MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT: ====================================== Date: Thursday October 11, 2007 Time: 7:00PM Room: Dreese Labs 266 Topic: MythTV According to the developer, "MythTV is a homebrew PVR project that I've been working on in my spare time. It's been under heavy development for almost four years, and is now quite useable and featureful." I see it as an OS for your home media center, that brings tv recording, playback, internet, and gaming to your living room. And Alex will surely show off some of the nuts and bolts that make this happen. ============================== ======== Club meetings are always open to the general public including nonmembers and nonstudents. Meetings are casual and usually last about one and a half hours. You are welcome to attend as your schedule permits - please be courteous when coming late or leaving early. -- == Peter Dietz Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071011/a0e1e12c/attachment.html From lee.2817 at osu.edu Thu Oct 11 09:52:07 2007 From: lee.2817 at osu.edu (Sean Lee) Date: Thu Oct 11 09:52:44 2007 Subject: [opensource] Meeting Tonight -- MythTV (an OS for your home media center) In-Reply-To: <240a31830710110622s3296564ax6c110363a4c21a5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <240a31830710110622s3296564ax6c110363a4c21a5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I really love MythTV, but I really would like to see my xbox360 to be able to be used as an extender for linuxMCE one day. I know it doesn't seem likely unless I mod my my 360, but I'm still hopeful that one day the microsoft mce protocol will be exploited :) If anyone knows of any projects that are working on something similar to this, please let me know.. i'd be interested in helping out. Sean On 10/11/07, Peter Dietz wrote: > > OPENSOURCE CLUB MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT: > ====================================== > > Date: Thursday October 11, 2007 > Time: 7:00PM > Room: Dreese Labs 266 > Topic: MythTV > > According to the developer, "MythTV is a homebrew PVR project that I've > been working on in my spare time. It's been under heavy development for > almost four years, and is now quite useable and featureful." > > I see it as an OS for your home media center, that brings tv recording, > playback, internet, and gaming to your living room. And Alex will surely > show off some of the nuts and bolts that make this happen. > > ============================== ======== > > Club meetings are always open to the general public including nonmembers > and > nonstudents. Meetings are casual and usually last about one and a half > hours. You are welcome to attend as your schedule permits - please be > courteous when coming late or leaving early. > > > -- > == > Peter Dietz > > Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > -- Thanks, Sean Lee (c) 614-218-4533 lee.2817@osu.edu Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering FEH Student The Ohio State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071011/56d91257/attachment.html From eiting.2 at osu.edu Tue Oct 16 21:54:46 2007 From: eiting.2 at osu.edu (Jacob Eiting) Date: Tue Oct 16 21:55:26 2007 Subject: [opensource] 37 Signals Getting Real Book Tour Message-ID: <1CE44DD1-6266-46C2-A5D4-209EEF5EEC00@osu.edu> Hey all, Long time reader first time poster. 37 Signals is the group that brought the world Ruby On Rails. Today on their blog, Signal Vs. Noise, they mentioned putting together a speaking tour for their book, Getting Real. If you haven't read it I suggest you do as its a great book on elegant programming and overall design. You can read it online for free: http://gettingreal. 37signals.com/toc.php They are asking for anyone with the ability to pull together 100+ attendants and a venue to send them an email. And as the biggest university in the country this should be no problem. I would be really excited to have them come and hear what they have to say. This would be a great thing for the OpenSource club to sponsor. If the OSC isn't interested we should still try and pull these guys in as they have a real vision in the industry today. Thanks, Jacob Eiting From rowland at cse.ohio-state.edu Wed Oct 17 13:37:59 2007 From: rowland at cse.ohio-state.edu (Shaun Rowland) Date: Wed Oct 17 13:38:34 2007 Subject: [opensource] current club officers Message-ID: <47164877.4000506@cse.ohio-state.edu> I need the current club officers to contact me via email off the list. -- Shaun Rowland rowland@cse.ohio-state.edu http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~rowland/ From jeff.borisch at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 10:10:36 2007 From: jeff.borisch at gmail.com (Jeff Borisch) Date: Mon Oct 22 10:11:11 2007 Subject: [opensource] 37 Signals Getting Real Book Tour In-Reply-To: <1CE44DD1-6266-46C2-A5D4-209EEF5EEC00@osu.edu> References: <1CE44DD1-6266-46C2-A5D4-209EEF5EEC00@osu.edu> Message-ID: The design school might be able to help promote this. http://design.osu.edu/dept_people_faculty.html Brian Stone would probably be the one most interested in helping. If not he could help you find someone who would. Jeff From dietz.72 at osu.edu Mon Oct 22 12:06:37 2007 From: dietz.72 at osu.edu (Peter Dietz) Date: Mon Oct 22 12:07:13 2007 Subject: [opensource] 37 Signals Getting Real Book Tour In-Reply-To: References: <1CE44DD1-6266-46C2-A5D4-209EEF5EEC00@osu.edu> Message-ID: <240a31830710220906h5ef3b0bcqc5a783e330b93d00@mail.gmail.com> I did email them [37 Signals], asking if they would like to come to Ohio State, but they're website says they have to have a faculty/professor to contact them instead of just students. On 10/22/07, Jeff Borisch wrote: > > The design school might be able to help promote this. > > http://design.osu.edu/dept_people_faculty.html > > Brian Stone would probably be the one most interested in helping. If > not he could help you find someone who would. > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > -- == Peter Dietz Computer Science & Engineering -- The Ohio State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071022/f1bdebf0/attachment-0001.html From swaney.29 at osu.edu Tue Oct 23 18:39:51 2007 From: swaney.29 at osu.edu (Brian Swaney) Date: Tue Oct 23 18:40:26 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser Message-ID: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this new program. http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html Any comments are welcome. -Brian Swaney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071023/3e2234dd/attachment.html From champion at cse.ohio-state.edu Thu Oct 25 00:32:37 2007 From: champion at cse.ohio-state.edu (Adam C. Champion) Date: Thu Oct 25 00:34:03 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great writeup, Brian! I wondered what this "Lockdown Browser" I saw on Carmen was. Since my research interests are computer and network security, I find the "'secure' testing" problem domain and this "lockdown" behavior intriguing. How do you provide students with Web access and form submission for an online test yet deny them most of the user-interface requirements of a Web browser (let alone "normal" use of Windows)? It seems Respondus is using IE components due to its ActiveX script requirement---but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing the browser)? I share your concerns about DRM. Last year, I wrote an honors thesis on the proliferation of trusted computing, DRM, and the associated legal and social ramifications; it's online at my website (http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~champion). From what I read on your writeup, however, I don't think the browser uses DRM; it "merely" controls the user's interaction with the (proprietary) WebCT application and the Windows OS. I would normally associate DRM with copyright owners enforcing usage policies with legally-purchased digital works, like songs and movies. The only copyright issues I see are those associated with "who owns" the test and any images included therein (like the copyrighted Wikipedia image), as well as Blackboard, Inc., which holds the copyright to WebCT and its trade secrets. Certainly, OSU's contract/site license with WebCT and Respondus is another intellectual-property issue. But, of course, I am not a lawyer :). I strongly believe that paper-and-pencil tests are one of *the* best ways to check that students have learned course material. Vigilant proctors/instructors should deter students from cheating; if students perceive they will be "caught in the act," they will be less likely to cheat than if they notice the TA engrossed in a paper and think they can get away with cheating. Besides, if you're taking an computer-based test that requires you to answer a set of questions before going on to the next set, you may not be able to go back and check/correct your previous answers within the test's time limit. (If you've taken the computer-based GRE, you know *exactly* what I'm talking about!) Just my two cents. Regards, Adam P.S. When I tried to read your "Carmen response" links, my firewall logged attempted connections from the CSE department website on ports 39728-9 and 50697-8. Any idea what's going on? Is it the spam filter? Brian Swaney wrote: > Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all > of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same > general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this > new program. > > http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html > > Any comments are welcome. > > -Brian Swaney From paul at paulbetts.org Thu Oct 25 13:38:34 2007 From: paul at paulbetts.org (Paul Betts) Date: Thu Oct 25 13:39:14 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0bee55509f3b378449b1fb7301146e89@localhost> > but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* > interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing > the browser)? If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything they want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. -- Paul Betts On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:32:37 -0400, "Adam C. Champion" wrote: > Great writeup, Brian! I wondered what this "Lockdown Browser" I saw on > Carmen was. Since my research interests are computer and network > security, I find the "'secure' testing" problem domain and this > "lockdown" behavior intriguing. How do you provide students with Web > access and form submission for an online test yet deny them most of the > user-interface requirements of a Web browser (let alone "normal" use of > Windows)? It seems Respondus is using IE components due to its ActiveX > script requirement---but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* > interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing > the browser)? > > I share your concerns about DRM. Last year, I wrote an honors thesis on > the proliferation of trusted computing, DRM, and the associated legal > and social ramifications; it's online at my website > (http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~champion). From what I read on your > writeup, however, I don't think the browser uses DRM; it "merely" > controls the user's interaction with the (proprietary) WebCT application > and the Windows OS. I would normally associate DRM with copyright owners > enforcing usage policies with legally-purchased digital works, like > songs and movies. The only copyright issues I see are those associated > with "who owns" the test and any images included therein (like the > copyrighted Wikipedia image), as well as Blackboard, Inc., which holds > the copyright to WebCT and its trade secrets. Certainly, OSU's > contract/site license with WebCT and Respondus is another > intellectual-property issue. But, of course, I am not a lawyer :). > > I strongly believe that paper-and-pencil tests are one of *the* best > ways to check that students have learned course material. Vigilant > proctors/instructors should deter students from cheating; if students > perceive they will be "caught in the act," they will be less likely to > cheat than if they notice the TA engrossed in a paper and think they can > get away with cheating. Besides, if you're taking an computer-based test > that requires you to answer a set of questions before going on to the > next set, you may not be able to go back and check/correct your previous > answers within the test's time limit. (If you've taken the > computer-based GRE, you know *exactly* what I'm talking about!) > > Just my two cents. > > Regards, > Adam > > P.S. When I tried to read your "Carmen response" links, my firewall > logged attempted connections from the CSE department website on ports > 39728-9 and 50697-8. Any idea what's going on? Is it the spam filter? > > > > Brian Swaney wrote: >> Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all >> of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same >> general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this >> new program. >> >> http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html >> >> Any comments are welcome. >> >> -Brian Swaney > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource From swaney.29 at osu.edu Thu Oct 25 13:53:14 2007 From: swaney.29 at osu.edu (Brian Swaney) Date: Thu Oct 25 13:53:54 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <0bee55509f3b378449b1fb7301146e89@localhost> References: <0bee55509f3b378449b1fb7301146e89@localhost> Message-ID: <1193334794.5797.34.camel@brians-laptop> There is an option at the bottom of the page to manually download an executable installer, but I made the point because ActiveX, at least by my experience (with the exception of setting update.microsoft.com as your home page) it's a really bad practice. Every month or so I had to clean out trojans and occasional viruses (last big one was 4 backdoors, a keylogger, and 1 delete-random-system-file-on-boot viruses, with 20 or so trojans; I'm guessing downloaders played a big part but still...), some appearing in a folder called "ActiveX Objects". After having this friend install Firefox, telling the whole family not to use Internet Explorer, and teaching them about malware, that got reduced to maybe once or twice a year at most. If OSU is to protect the campus from viruses, ActiveX is not a good idea, but that's just my opinion. Paul, I'm not sure what you mean by "in the context of your username". You don't have to log in to install it, despite the license agreement warning not to distribute the program to those not affiliated with the institution. One of the school's public articles has the download URL in a screenshot, which is where I sampled/honey-potted it from. -Brian Swaney On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 13:38 -0400, Paul Betts wrote: > > but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* > > interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing > > the browser)? > > If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything they > want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071025/f15d262c/attachment.html From champion at cse.ohio-state.edu Thu Oct 25 14:32:42 2007 From: champion at cse.ohio-state.edu (Adam C. Champion) Date: Thu Oct 25 14:34:03 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. I thought ActiveX scripts ran in a "sandbox" within the client's IE browser, like Java applets do in any browser. I know IE 7+ in Vista places restrictions on scripts and "active Web content", but users of previous Windows versions can't download IE 7+! So other versions of IE run ActiveX scripts with the user's permissions? Yikes. I can think of many ways these "features" can be abused, and potentially open up security vulnerabilities... -Adam Paul Betts wrote: >> but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* >> interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing >> the browser)? > > If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything they > want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. > From uhrich.1 at gradsch.ohio-state.edu Thu Oct 25 17:17:44 2007 From: uhrich.1 at gradsch.ohio-state.edu (Marc Uhrich) Date: Thu Oct 25 17:18:22 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CB246A6FE23948B81E95787CC154210782302B@exchange.gradsch.ohio-state.edu> I'm responding to both Brian and Adams comments here..... What Paul means by "context of your username" is the permission structure of the user account logged onto the computer at the time. For example, if you logged into a lab computer where there are a lot of restrictions the code the active X control runs will be limited by these restriction. If you are running your computer with administrator privileges, like most windows users, the active X control can do *pretty much* anything it wants. This is a fundamental issue between convenience and security. Active X controls allow people to write really sophisticated web applications, but opens them up to severe vulnerabilities. Microsoft has figured out this glaring security hole and made some attempts to mitigate it in IE 7. As far as I know, IE 7 on both Windows XP and Windows Vista disables Active X controls and disables the prompt to install them. Prior versions prompted but naive or uninformed users would just click yes to make things work and circumvent this control. It's nice to see that they might limit active X code in IE7+ instead of just "hiding it". To be honest, I haven't been following it much. All of this reminds me of the famous quote in Spiderman "with great power, comes great responsibility". Using the countless spam messages and continuous net attacks we get here at the Graduate School as an indicator, I don't think the general internet community is, or will be, ready for the responsibility. Marc Uhrich Systems Engineer @ OSU Graduate School 247 University Hall, 230 N Oval Mall Columbus, Ohio 43210 (614) 292-0600 -----Original Message----- From: opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu [mailto:opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Adam C. Champion Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:33 PM To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser Wow. I thought ActiveX scripts ran in a "sandbox" within the client's IE browser, like Java applets do in any browser. I know IE 7+ in Vista places restrictions on scripts and "active Web content", but users of previous Windows versions can't download IE 7+! So other versions of IE run ActiveX scripts with the user's permissions? Yikes. I can think of many ways these "features" can be abused, and potentially open up security vulnerabilities... -Adam Paul Betts wrote: >> but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* interaction with the >> OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing the browser)? > > If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything > they want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. > _______________________________________________ Opensource mailing list Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource From swaney.29 at osu.edu Thu Oct 25 18:21:53 2007 From: swaney.29 at osu.edu (Brian Swaney) Date: Thu Oct 25 18:22:35 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <46CB246A6FE23948B81E95787CC154210782302B@exchange.gradsch.ohio-state.edu> References: <46CB246A6FE23948B81E95787CC154210782302B@exchange.gradsch.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <47211701.5080802@osu.edu> ActiveX seems to work in them, but with a prompt. The nice thing is that they added a "What's the risk?" option to the menu that pops up, to explain (albeit vaguely) what the risk is, but it still works when allowed. I haven't had IE6 on my XP partition for a while (well, used it; I formatted a few times), so I don't know how it works in that one for sure. Supposedly IE7 is safer, so I upgraded right away, although I always use Firefox. Regardless of what exactly ActiveX can do right now, the main purpose of my article was the browser. The school is acting like a content producer, in that they're afraid of what users can do with their computers, but they're trying to make the students use them, so they dish out restrictive software. The software, like anti-piracy mechanisms, is not very effective at its job and if anything, merely annoys the honest students who are genuinely interested in learning the content. The school still offers it as an option to professors though. If they start relying on that to stop cheating, the problem is going to get worse, along with the frustration of students having to use this program. My proposed solution is that the online testing without the browser be an option, with whatever (non-ActiveX) restrictive scripts they feel like, but secure testing be taken in person. No crapware browser. If they /absolutely/ must have their new program, then it should be done in some specifically designated testing zone, where it's quiet, closely monitored for cheating, and non-admin privileges are limited, sort of like the computers in Mirror Lake Cafe, only with Respondus instead of IE6. No installing it on home computers, no saying "well, if you run Linux or don't have a computer then just take it in the lab", nothing of that sort. It won't even work. Personally, I think some of its operating system hooks are worse than the ActiveX installer. The browser /can/ malfunction. I'm not sure I want to say exactly how I froze it in my tests just yet, but it can freeze. Normally, when a program freezes, you close it with [Ctrl] + [Alt] + [Delete], but the makers thought students "couldn't be trusted" with that ability, so the program hooks the OS to block that and alert you that you're not permitted to run programs such as the task manager. I then blocked the task manager from being disabled with McAfee's access control thing, and it saw it couldn't block it, so it closed the window immediately (within 1/4 seconds at the most) upon opening. Now, suppose a test's source is poorly written and the page freezes, the connection lags, or something of that sort, the user has to shut off the computer to escape, and probably fails the exam in the process. I know it's sort of an unreasonable risk to consider, since almost everyone will be doing this from a lab or dorm (on OSU's own network), making this extremely hard to create, but what if the connection is hijacked (or browser's built-in homepage)? I don't know what security alerts the browser pops up, and it certainly doesn't display the URL or security certificate, so a user could easily fall for a school-credential-based phishing attack, and have no way of knowing it, though if someone were that determined, the victim probably wouldn't have much hope anyway I suppose. Even if the user doesn't have another computer or virtual machine, all someone has to do is send them an instant message in an unrecognized (non-proprietary) program (like Pidgin, from my example) with a link in it, the user clicks the link, and the default browser (even Firefox, which I'm sure is recognized) opens right up, then they type google.com or something... and, well you get the idea. It's not very hard to open other windows on the browser, just frustrating with the full-screen window that hides the taskbar. -Brian Swaney Marc Uhrich wrote: > I'm responding to both Brian and Adams comments here..... > > What Paul means by "context of your username" is the permission > structure of the user account logged onto the computer at the time. For > example, if you logged into a lab computer where there are a lot of > restrictions the code the active X control runs will be limited by these > restriction. If you are running your computer with administrator > privileges, like most windows users, the active X control can do *pretty > much* anything it wants. > > This is a fundamental issue between convenience and security. Active X > controls allow people to write really sophisticated web applications, > but opens them up to severe vulnerabilities. Microsoft has figured out > this glaring security hole and made some attempts to mitigate it in IE > 7. As far as I know, IE 7 on both Windows XP and Windows Vista > disables Active X controls and disables the prompt to install them. > Prior versions prompted but naive or uninformed users would just click > yes to make things work and circumvent this control. It's nice to see > that they might limit active X code in IE7+ instead of just "hiding it". > To be honest, I haven't been following it much. > > All of this reminds me of the famous quote in Spiderman "with great > power, comes great responsibility". Using the countless spam messages > and continuous net attacks we get here at the Graduate School as an > indicator, I don't think the general internet community is, or will be, > ready for the responsibility. > Marc Uhrich > Systems Engineer @ OSU Graduate School > 247 University Hall, 230 N Oval Mall > Columbus, Ohio 43210 > (614) 292-0600 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Adam C. > Champion > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:33 PM > To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser > > Wow. I thought ActiveX scripts ran in a "sandbox" within the client's IE > browser, like Java applets do in any browser. I know IE 7+ in Vista > places restrictions on scripts and "active Web content", but users of > previous Windows versions can't download IE 7+! So other versions of IE > run ActiveX scripts with the user's permissions? Yikes. > > I can think of many ways these "features" can be abused, and potentially > open up security vulnerabilities... > > -Adam > > Paul Betts wrote: > >>> but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* interaction with the >>> OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing the browser)? >>> >> If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything >> they want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your >> > username. > > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071025/6adffeb6/attachment.html From toms.16 at osu.edu Fri Oct 26 09:09:26 2007 From: toms.16 at osu.edu (Lowell Toms) Date: Fri Oct 26 09:10:06 2007 Subject: [opensource] RE: New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <200710252127.l9PLRAZ9022890@cse.ohio-state.edu> References: <200710252127.l9PLRAZ9022890@cse.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <002c01c817d1$6f623550$4e269ff0$@16@osu.edu> Thanks to Brian for taking the time to write about the mysterious lockdown browser that is referred to on Carmen's front page; as always, I was clueless and appreciate the information. It is odd that such information has to come through the back door. While most of the posts are about problems associated with the software implementation of such a browser, I see another area of concern. First, like some of the posters, I also believe that taking a pen and paper test is the tried and true means of measuring someone's understanding. So, isn't the demand for such a web based system based on two glaring problems that are rampant at Ohio State; those two problems being, huge classroom enrollments that tax the instructor's ability to deal with conventional testing, and the quest for some instructors to speed up and automate their teaching duties so they can get back to the product that provides tenure - research? Brick and mortar schools need to take a serious look in the mirror, because if the large lecture (without allowing student questions) and computerized testing become the norm, why the need for the bricks? In my perfect world, class size is never over 30, students can ask questions, and freshmen are given a copy of Ubuntu with vmplayer when they arrive on campus. Further, all typed assignments are .odt or .pdf, engineering students use octave, gcc, and maxima, and the university promotes open source code initiatives (for credit) for software that isn't up to proprietary standards like stats packages and cad. (takes rose colored glasses off and sighs) -----Original Message----- From: opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu [mailto:opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of opensource-request@cse.ohio-state.edu Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:27 PM To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Subject: Opensource Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5 Send Opensource mailing list submissions to opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to opensource-request@cse.ohio-state.edu You can reach the person managing the list at opensource-owner@cse.ohio-state.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Opensource digest..." Today's Topics: 1. New Web Browser (Brian Swaney) 2. Re: New Web Browser (Adam C. Champion) 3. Re: New Web Browser (Paul Betts) 4. Re: New Web Browser (Brian Swaney) 5. Re: New Web Browser (Adam C. Champion) 6. RE: New Web Browser (Marc Uhrich) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:39:51 -0400 From: Brian Swaney Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this new program. http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html Any comments are welcome. -Brian Swaney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/200710 23/3e2234dd/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:32:37 -0400 From: "Adam C. Champion" Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Great writeup, Brian! I wondered what this "Lockdown Browser" I saw on Carmen was. Since my research interests are computer and network security, I find the "'secure' testing" problem domain and this "lockdown" behavior intriguing. How do you provide students with Web access and form submission for an online test yet deny them most of the user-interface requirements of a Web browser (let alone "normal" use of Windows)? It seems Respondus is using IE components due to its ActiveX script requirement---but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing the browser)? I share your concerns about DRM. Last year, I wrote an honors thesis on the proliferation of trusted computing, DRM, and the associated legal and social ramifications; it's online at my website (http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~champion). From what I read on your writeup, however, I don't think the browser uses DRM; it "merely" controls the user's interaction with the (proprietary) WebCT application and the Windows OS. I would normally associate DRM with copyright owners enforcing usage policies with legally-purchased digital works, like songs and movies. The only copyright issues I see are those associated with "who owns" the test and any images included therein (like the copyrighted Wikipedia image), as well as Blackboard, Inc., which holds the copyright to WebCT and its trade secrets. Certainly, OSU's contract/site license with WebCT and Respondus is another intellectual-property issue. But, of course, I am not a lawyer :). I strongly believe that paper-and-pencil tests are one of *the* best ways to check that students have learned course material. Vigilant proctors/instructors should deter students from cheating; if students perceive they will be "caught in the act," they will be less likely to cheat than if they notice the TA engrossed in a paper and think they can get away with cheating. Besides, if you're taking an computer-based test that requires you to answer a set of questions before going on to the next set, you may not be able to go back and check/correct your previous answers within the test's time limit. (If you've taken the computer-based GRE, you know *exactly* what I'm talking about!) Just my two cents. Regards, Adam P.S. When I tried to read your "Carmen response" links, my firewall logged attempted connections from the CSE department website on ports 39728-9 and 50697-8. Any idea what's going on? Is it the spam filter? Brian Swaney wrote: > Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all > of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same > general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this > new program. > > http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html > > Any comments are welcome. > > -Brian Swaney ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:38:34 -0400 From: Paul Betts Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser To: "Adam C. Champion" , opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <0bee55509f3b378449b1fb7301146e89@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* > interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing > the browser)? If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything they want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. -- Paul Betts On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:32:37 -0400, "Adam C. Champion" wrote: > Great writeup, Brian! I wondered what this "Lockdown Browser" I saw on > Carmen was. Since my research interests are computer and network > security, I find the "'secure' testing" problem domain and this > "lockdown" behavior intriguing. How do you provide students with Web > access and form submission for an online test yet deny them most of the > user-interface requirements of a Web browser (let alone "normal" use of > Windows)? It seems Respondus is using IE components due to its ActiveX > script requirement---but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* > interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing > the browser)? > > I share your concerns about DRM. Last year, I wrote an honors thesis on > the proliferation of trusted computing, DRM, and the associated legal > and social ramifications; it's online at my website > (http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~champion). From what I read on your > writeup, however, I don't think the browser uses DRM; it "merely" > controls the user's interaction with the (proprietary) WebCT application > and the Windows OS. I would normally associate DRM with copyright owners > enforcing usage policies with legally-purchased digital works, like > songs and movies. The only copyright issues I see are those associated > with "who owns" the test and any images included therein (like the > copyrighted Wikipedia image), as well as Blackboard, Inc., which holds > the copyright to WebCT and its trade secrets. Certainly, OSU's > contract/site license with WebCT and Respondus is another > intellectual-property issue. But, of course, I am not a lawyer :). > > I strongly believe that paper-and-pencil tests are one of *the* best > ways to check that students have learned course material. Vigilant > proctors/instructors should deter students from cheating; if students > perceive they will be "caught in the act," they will be less likely to > cheat than if they notice the TA engrossed in a paper and think they can > get away with cheating. Besides, if you're taking an computer-based test > that requires you to answer a set of questions before going on to the > next set, you may not be able to go back and check/correct your previous > answers within the test's time limit. (If you've taken the > computer-based GRE, you know *exactly* what I'm talking about!) > > Just my two cents. > > Regards, > Adam > > P.S. When I tried to read your "Carmen response" links, my firewall > logged attempted connections from the CSE department website on ports > 39728-9 and 50697-8. Any idea what's going on? Is it the spam filter? > > > > Brian Swaney wrote: >> Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all >> of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same >> general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this >> new program. >> >> http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html >> >> Any comments are welcome. >> >> -Brian Swaney > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:53:14 -0400 From: Brian Swaney Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser To: paul@paulbetts.org Cc: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu, "Adam C. Champion" Message-ID: <1193334794.5797.34.camel@brians-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is an option at the bottom of the page to manually download an executable installer, but I made the point because ActiveX, at least by my experience (with the exception of setting update.microsoft.com as your home page) it's a really bad practice. Every month or so I had to clean out trojans and occasional viruses (last big one was 4 backdoors, a keylogger, and 1 delete-random-system-file-on-boot viruses, with 20 or so trojans; I'm guessing downloaders played a big part but still...), some appearing in a folder called "ActiveX Objects". After having this friend install Firefox, telling the whole family not to use Internet Explorer, and teaching them about malware, that got reduced to maybe once or twice a year at most. If OSU is to protect the campus from viruses, ActiveX is not a good idea, but that's just my opinion. Paul, I'm not sure what you mean by "in the context of your username". You don't have to log in to install it, despite the license agreement warning not to distribute the program to those not affiliated with the institution. One of the school's public articles has the download URL in a screenshot, which is where I sampled/honey-potted it from. -Brian Swaney On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 13:38 -0400, Paul Betts wrote: > > but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* > > interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing > > the browser)? > > If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything they > want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/200710 25/f15d262c/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:32:42 -0400 From: "Adam C. Champion" Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Wow. I thought ActiveX scripts ran in a "sandbox" within the client's IE browser, like Java applets do in any browser. I know IE 7+ in Vista places restrictions on scripts and "active Web content", but users of previous Windows versions can't download IE 7+! So other versions of IE run ActiveX scripts with the user's permissions? Yikes. I can think of many ways these "features" can be abused, and potentially open up security vulnerabilities... -Adam Paul Betts wrote: >> but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* >> interaction with the OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing >> the browser)? > > If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything they > want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:17:44 -0400 From: "Marc Uhrich" Subject: RE: [opensource] New Web Browser To: Message-ID: <46CB246A6FE23948B81E95787CC154210782302B@exchange.gradsch.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I'm responding to both Brian and Adams comments here..... What Paul means by "context of your username" is the permission structure of the user account logged onto the computer at the time. For example, if you logged into a lab computer where there are a lot of restrictions the code the active X control runs will be limited by these restriction. If you are running your computer with administrator privileges, like most windows users, the active X control can do *pretty much* anything it wants. This is a fundamental issue between convenience and security. Active X controls allow people to write really sophisticated web applications, but opens them up to severe vulnerabilities. Microsoft has figured out this glaring security hole and made some attempts to mitigate it in IE 7. As far as I know, IE 7 on both Windows XP and Windows Vista disables Active X controls and disables the prompt to install them. Prior versions prompted but naive or uninformed users would just click yes to make things work and circumvent this control. It's nice to see that they might limit active X code in IE7+ instead of just "hiding it". To be honest, I haven't been following it much. All of this reminds me of the famous quote in Spiderman "with great power, comes great responsibility". Using the countless spam messages and continuous net attacks we get here at the Graduate School as an indicator, I don't think the general internet community is, or will be, ready for the responsibility. Marc Uhrich Systems Engineer @ OSU Graduate School 247 University Hall, 230 N Oval Mall Columbus, Ohio 43210 (614) 292-0600 -----Original Message----- From: opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu [mailto:opensource-bounces@cse.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Adam C. Champion Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:33 PM To: opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [opensource] New Web Browser Wow. I thought ActiveX scripts ran in a "sandbox" within the client's IE browser, like Java applets do in any browser. I know IE 7+ in Vista places restrictions on scripts and "active Web content", but users of previous Windows versions can't download IE 7+! So other versions of IE run ActiveX scripts with the user's permissions? Yikes. I can think of many ways these "features" can be abused, and potentially open up security vulnerabilities... -Adam Paul Betts wrote: >> but how does it "lock down" students' *entire* interaction with the >> OS (e.g., prevent them from closing or minimizing the browser)? > > If they're running their own ActiveX control, they can do *anything > they want*. They are running arbitrary C++ code in the context of your username. > _______________________________________________ Opensource mailing list Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Opensource mailing list Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource End of Opensource Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5 ***************************************** From dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu Mon Oct 29 09:09:53 2007 From: dinan at cse.ohio-state.edu (Jim Dinan) Date: Mon Oct 29 09:10:33 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> References: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> Message-ID: <4725DBA1.7050108@cse.ohio-state.edu> How will respondus prevent me from using my cell phone while I am taking an exam? Will it keep me from taking screen shots with my digital camera or copying down questions on paper? Will it know if students get together to solve the exam and then take it individually or if they gather as a group with laptops to take it? What if I go to the computer lab and just use 2 machines, one for the web and one for the exam? As you've pointed out, this is clearly not a sufficient solution to prevent students from cheating. I'm really sad to hear that you guys will have to deal with this lockdown browser junk. This type of misguided draconian measure has no place in fostering a healthy and productive learning environment. Also, rather than DRM, this type of scheme is often called "treacherous computing": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html. "Treacherous computing" is a general term that refers to any system which causes your computer to obey others instead of you. ~jim. Brian Swaney wrote: > Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all > of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same > general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this > new program. > > http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html > > Any comments are welcome. > > -Brian Swaney From swaney.29 at osu.edu Mon Oct 29 11:40:50 2007 From: swaney.29 at osu.edu (Brian Swaney) Date: Mon Oct 29 11:41:27 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <4725DBA1.7050108@cse.ohio-state.edu> References: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> <4725DBA1.7050108@cse.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <4725FF02.2020309@osu.edu> Respondus will likely stop any hardware (such as your phone) from connecting to the computer to take screenshots, and most phones' camera resolution will not be high enough to legibly take a picture of the computer screen, at least as far as I understand. It does not prevent students from working together, or using multiple computers. I brought this point up in my article (I think) inquiring if 2 students share a dorm in the same class, and then take turns running the browser. The only way I see of getting out of this is through feedback, or perhaps a little grassroots activism. Basically, let the Carmen/OIT people know, as well as any and all instructors who may decide to use it. Let them know that this new program is both invasive and ineffective. On a side note, I really hope they don't expect computer science students to use it. Not only for our own sake, but because they're going to have a lot of students guilty of "academic misconduct" for evading these mechanisms by way of virtualization (my personal favorite) when they use Linux and Wine/VMWare/QEMU/Xen to take their exams. I complained about this to them, and received a response, thanking me for expressing my "unique concerns" and saying to use a lab computer if I don't like it, but I suspect it will be different if I'm not the only one who resents the idea. I suspect the foreign language departments will be the first to use it, so make sure they know if you take their courses, and I'll probably bring it up soon myself. Thank you for the correction on terminology. I'll have it changed to treacherous computing on my article shortly (class coming up in a few minutes). -Brian Swaney Jim Dinan wrote: > How will respondus prevent me from using my cell phone while I am taking > an exam? Will it keep me from taking screen shots with my digital > camera or copying down questions on paper? Will it know if students get > together to solve the exam and then take it individually or if they > gather as a group with laptops to take it? What if I go to the computer > lab and just use 2 machines, one for the web and one for the exam? > > As you've pointed out, this is clearly not a sufficient solution to > prevent students from cheating. I'm really sad to hear that you guys > will have to deal with this lockdown browser junk. This type of > misguided draconian measure has no place in fostering a healthy and > productive learning environment. > > Also, rather than DRM, this type of scheme is often called "treacherous > computing": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html. > "Treacherous computing" is a general term that refers to any system > which causes your computer to obey others instead of you. > > ~jim. > > Brian Swaney wrote: > >> Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to trip all >> of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The same >> general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops this >> new program. >> >> http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html >> >> Any comments are welcome. >> >> -Brian Swaney >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071029/6042f998/attachment.html From fritts.11 at osu.edu Tue Oct 30 19:08:07 2007 From: fritts.11 at osu.edu (AP Fritts) Date: Tue Oct 30 19:08:57 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <4725E6FF.30906@cse.ohio-state.edu> References: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> <4725DBA1.7050108@cse.ohio-state.edu> <793414560710290621t36664a7ek28cb1e21bd9174f1@mail.gmail.com> <4725E6FF.30906@cse.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <793414560710301608m2df3bf04m4dd2a2f10619073a@mail.gmail.com> I haven't tried this yet...but....let's say you install this software in WINE under Linux. The program will probably work (since you can get just about anything to work with WINE) and then it won't take control of your other programs or mouse. Just a thought. AP On 10/29/07, Jim Dinan wrote: > > Hey AP, > > Did you mean to reply-all? I don't think your post went out to the list. > > ~jim. > > AP Fritts wrote: > > I haven't tried this yet...but.... > > > > What if I install this software in WINE under Linux?? It will probably > > work (since you can get just about anything to work) and then it won't > > take control of your other programs or mouse. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > AP > > > > On 10/29/07, *Jim Dinan* > > wrote: > > > > How will respondus prevent me from using my cell phone while I am > taking > > an exam? Will it keep me from taking screen shots with my digital > > camera or copying down questions on paper? Will it know if students > get > > together to solve the exam and then take it individually or if they > > gather as a group with laptops to take it? What if I go to the > computer > > lab and just use 2 machines, one for the web and one for the exam? > > > > As you've pointed out, this is clearly not a sufficient solution to > > prevent students from cheating. I'm really sad to hear that you > guys > > will have to deal with this lockdown browser junk. This type of > > misguided draconian measure has no place in fostering a healthy and > > productive learning environment. > > > > Also, rather than DRM, this type of scheme is often called > "treacherous > > computing": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html > > . > > "Treacherous computing" is a general term that refers to any system > > which causes your computer to obey others instead of you. > > > > ~jim. > > > > Brian Swaney wrote: > > > Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to > > trip all > > > of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this time. The > same > > > general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and out pops > this > > > new program. > > > > > > http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html > > > > > > Any comments are welcome. > > > > > > -Brian Swaney > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Opensource mailing list > > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AP Fritts > > Mobile: 330-730-1404 > > AIM: apfritts > > Web: http://www.apfritts.com/ > > -- AP Fritts Mobile: 330-730-1404 AIM: apfritts Web: http://www.apfritts.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/private/opensource/attachments/20071030/f77cad48/attachment.html From swaney.29 at osu.edu Tue Oct 30 19:22:40 2007 From: swaney.29 at osu.edu (Brian Swaney) Date: Tue Oct 30 19:23:31 2007 Subject: [opensource] New Web Browser In-Reply-To: <793414560710301608m2df3bf04m4dd2a2f10619073a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1193179192.5730.30.camel@brians-laptop> <4725DBA1.7050108@cse.ohio-state.edu> <793414560710290621t36664a7ek28cb1e21bd9174f1@mail.gmail.com> <4725E6FF.30906@cse.ohio-state.edu> <793414560710301608m2df3bf04m4dd2a2f10619073a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4727BCC0.20709@osu.edu> Tried it. It installed, but then didn't open in Wine. Either Windows/Mac, or a virtual machine would run it. I guess it doesn't have anything to hook on startup, and not getting an all-clear from the OS, doesn't open, but I can't say for sure. -Brian Swaney AP Fritts wrote: > I haven't tried this yet...but....let's say you install this software > in WINE under Linux. The program will probably work (since you can > get just about anything to work with WINE) and then it won't take > control of your other programs or mouse. > > Just a thought. > > AP > > On 10/29/07, *Jim Dinan* > wrote: > > Hey AP, > > Did you mean to reply-all? I don't think your post went out to > the list. > > ~jim. > > AP Fritts wrote: > > I haven't tried this yet...but.... > > > > What if I install this software in WINE under Linux?? It will > probably > > work (since you can get just about anything to work) and then it > won't > > take control of your other programs or mouse. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > AP > > > > On 10/29/07, *Jim Dinan* < dinan@cse.ohio-state.edu > > > >> wrote: > > > > How will respondus prevent me from using my cell phone while > I am taking > > an exam? Will it keep me from taking screen shots with my > digital > > camera or copying down questions on paper? Will it know if > students get > > together to solve the exam and then take it individually or > if they > > gather as a group with laptops to take it? What if I go to > the computer > > lab and just use 2 machines, one for the web and one for the > exam? > > > > As you've pointed out, this is clearly not a sufficient > solution to > > prevent students from cheating. I'm really sad to hear that > you guys > > will have to deal with this lockdown browser junk. This type of > > misguided draconian measure has no place in fostering a > healthy and > > productive learning environment. > > > > Also, rather than DRM, this type of scheme is often called > "treacherous > > computing": http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html > > . > > "Treacherous computing" is a general term that refers to any > system > > which causes your computer to obey others instead of you. > > > > ~jim. > > > > Brian Swaney wrote: > > > Ok, I tried sending this directly to the list, but it seems to > > trip all > > > of the spam alarms. I'll try linking to a web page this > time. The same > > > general message is there. Basically, DRM meets OSU, and > out pops this > > > new program. > > > > > > > http://www.cse.ohio-state.edu/~swaneybr/lockdown-analysis.html > > > > > > > Any comments are welcome. > > > > > > -Brian Swaney > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Opensource mailing list > > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > > > > > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AP Fritts > > Mobile: 330-730-1404 > > AIM: apfritts > > Web: http://www.apfritts.com/ > > > > > -- > AP Fritts > Mobile: 330-730-1404 > AIM: apfritts > Web: http://www.apfritts.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Opensource mailing list > Opensource@cse.ohio-state.edu > http://mail.cse.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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